Social Media and Sincerity

Ali

My name is Ali. I'm a doctor and YouTuber.

Taimur

I'm a Taimur. I'm a data scientist and writer. And you're listening to not overthinking The weekly podcast where we think about happiness, creativity and the human condition.

Ali

Hello, and welcome back to Not Overthinking. Taimur, how are you doing today?

Taimur

Doing pretty well, I actually just got off a call with one of the Not Overthinking members, who's going to be helping us out with some community organizing and that kind of stuff. Yeah, that was really good fun. He's in Singapore, where they have to do like a two year military service stint between secondary school, high school, and university. And yeah, we were kind of talking about this, It was, my friends at university who were from Singapore, they struck me as like a lot more mature. I mean, they're like two years older. So that's part of it. But I think also, like having this two year period, where you're outside of the education bubble, just seems like a really valuable thing. Because for, you know, people like us, you just kind of go through school, which is very much like a bubble of being surrounded by people exactly your age thinking exactly the same things as you. And then like immediately your going to university, which, you know, there's a bit maybe you interact with slightly older people a little bit. But, you know, broadly, you're sort of stuck in this bubble of people exactly the same age as you thinking exactly same things as you. And having the sort of two year stint in between high school and university, where you're out of that bubble in the real world, interacting with people of all ages, you know, and so on. It just seems like a really valuable thing. What do you reckon?

Ali

Yeah, one of my mates from med school, and he was also Singaporean. It was like three years older than all of us. And yeah, I'm not sure we're more mature. But I think, I think it is, it is like a valuable thing to do.

Taimur

Yeah, I guess it depends what you mean, by mature. Like, I think, you know, that there's like a, an interpretation of maturity, which I think is very, like not even surface level of like, you know, are you don't laugh at like certain jokes anymore, because you were mature or whatever. That's not really what I'm talking about. I mean, the thing that this chap was mentioning was that, I think he's coming towards the end of his two year stint. And it's just been like, a couple of years of sort of staring into the void and trying to figure out what you want from life and like, you know, all this kind of stuff. And I think there's a level of maturity that comes with that. Whereas if you're stuck in the education, industrial complex, without any breaks, then I don't think you really get that opportunity, to the same extent, and you're not really you never really have to think for yourself at all. The path is just kind of laid out for you, everyone else is doing stuff, you want the validation of your peers, and you're kind of doing the same things and so on.

Ali

Yeah, this is something, so I was talking to our friend Paul, who is my Singaporean friend like about this yesterday, we were, we were just catching up and spitballing ideas around, you know, there's this question of how do you figure out what to do with your life, which I am a trying to figure out myself and be trying to figure out a framework for writing in the book. And one thing that he said, which was very interesting was that he he said that, you want to think about what's the playbook? And is there a playbook for these for the area of life in which you're currently at. So I think when you're in school, and you're, let's say, a nerd in school, the playbook is I want to get really good grades so I can get to a really good university. And it's a pretty clear path path forward, like you know, what you have to do to get there. When you're at university, you know, like, certainly, if you're a medical student, the playbook is I need to get through my exams, I need to try and do somewhat well, I need to maybe rack up a publication or two, so I can optimize my chances to get a decent foundation year job six years down the line. When you're in that foundation year job, the playbook is okay. And I need to make it through the next two years and decide what specialty to do. And so at each of these junctures, there's a very clear part like yellow brick road laid And what he was saying to me is that this is like even though I've kind of gone out in front of you. slightly away from the medicine thing and more towards this being a creative thing. He was saying that there is a playbook for the being a creative thing as well. It's, you build an audience, you start off by repurposing other people's stuff, you maybe do some original insights of your own, you do YouTube, you get different platforms, eventually you write a book, and then you become an angel investor. And then you start doing the speaking gigs. Paybook of the internet creator, entrepreneur guru type thing. And so what he was saying, is that, what I'm thinking about what I'm thinking, like, how do I actually want to design my life, if I do want to straddle these worlds of medicine and the internet, that is, there isn't really a playbook for that, because very few people do that. Whereas if I want to go entirely one way or the other, there is a very clear playbook to follow. And so when you're in this sort of being pulled in multiple directions, but with multiple interests, you have to do a lot more original thinking of like, what do I actually want to do and what do I want my life to look like without just blindly following the path laid out in front of you.

Taimur

Yeah, for sure. How did we get onto that? Singaporean friend? How was your week been, Ali?

Ali

How's my week been? I haven't have to look at my calendar when I'm doing this until I've done my weekly review. Broadly, broadly the week has been pretty good. It was a bit of a stressful day on a Friday where they were just like a few different things that piled up with like the YouTuber Academy course that were that were in the middle of. We had like a few kind of back channel grumblings where there was, there was some some level of Chinese whispering that, hey, some people weren't kind of finding some aspects of the course as valuable as they would have liked or as valuable as they were hyped. And so me and Angus were like cheering her on being like, what the hell's going on? Like, how do we solve this and like, really, kind of, I think probably, I went a bit over the top and trying to think, Oh, my God, this is a problem, we need to solve it. And then I was chatting to some friends and business associates, and they were like, look, people are always going to do some level of back channel grumbling, and you can't read into it too much. Like, if you've given the space for people to actually give you feedback, and no one has done it. Then you don't need to worry about back channel grumbling, cuz this is always gonna happen, it's just how people are. And you don't want to, for example, if two people are just being like, oh, hey, the session wasn't wasn't as useful as last session, while you don't want to try and fix things mid flight, even though it's not a problem for like 99% of other people. And so there was a little bit of a stressful day in that, yeah, all these various things are piling up. But broadly, week has been pretty chill beyond that.

Taimur

So what when you say this back channel grumbling? By what's the extent of it is it like, or that lesson wasn't, was still really good, but not as good as last week?

Ali

It was like, well, you know, like, we're like one of our students who were kind of tight Word says that oh, yeah, I was DMing, one or two of the other students. And they were like, yeah, these particular types of sessions that we've been having haven't necessarily been I haven't been as useful for like intermediate YouTubers, because they seem more focused towards beginners. And, you know, as intermediate YouTubers, we feel like we're not getting huge value from these sessions, because they're run by other kind of beginners, and And so we've added stuff to more directly catered to intermediate YouTubers, I that kind of stuff. And so I was being like, I think it's easy to read too much into that and say that, Oh, my God, we're not catering to intermediate youtubers at all. think, some aspects of it was also, I think, just a lack of clarity around what certain sessions are. So we have like these things called Alumni Support Sessions, which are just sort of rock up and have a chat and share any struggles and things like that. But because it's billed as that, like rack up and have a chat and share any struggles, like that's very nebulous, like, there isn't a clear, like, what is the point of these sessions. Whereas if we were to say that, look, these are sessions focused at beginners who are struggling with the, I don't know, with various aspects of being a YouTuber, and you can chat with other beginners in the community, it becomes a lot more obvious. And so intermediate youtubers will be like, okay, cool. It's not for me, that's fine.

Taimur

Okay, that makes sense. Why did you feel stressed about that?

Ali

It was it was that and like one or two other sort of minor, minor grumbles that like we don't usually have any grumbling at all. And so like, zero grumbling to sort of some grumbling felt like, like a big change. And I was like, Oh, my God, what are we doing wrong here? So I think that was what led partly to the fact that that felt a bit a little bit stressful.

Taimur

Okay, that's fair. You win some you lose some.

Ali

Exactly. I've tried to taking my blog more seriously this week. It's been very fun. Who was it? I had a chat with someone. Oh, I had a chat with my storytelling coach Matthew Dicks who wrote my favorite book of 2020, called: "Storyworthy"—which is all about how to become a better storyteller. And we were chatting, and he apparently has bought he has been writing a blog post every day since 2003. And some of these are quite short, obviously. But he says that, yeah, each morning, I just, you know, I think for prompt like, I've recently I've been thinking about x, and then I just write about it for half an hour. And I just publish it on my blog. And he was saying, like, there was like, one day, like, three months ago, where his daughter said, Daddy, you haven't published a blog post. And he was like, I definitely haven't been doing it every day since 2003. He's probably haven't press the publish button. And he had loads of emails from people being like, Oh, my God, like, where are you? We thought you were dead. Like [...]. The other cool thing that Matthew does is that every month like every, every year, he like, defines his, like, 50 or so goals for the year. And every month, he does like a goals update, where he just kind of shares his progress and each of these goals, and has found that like really, really, really inspiring because I looked through his list. And it was it was like an interesting list of goals. And some of them, he succeeded out. Some of them he failed out. And he said his hit rate, his success rate is around about 60%. And he said the real value in those goal sharing posts is the fact that it holds him accountable. But it also helps the audience like the readers of his blog, like it kind of normalizes failure. And so he gets a lot of emails from readers saying that yeah, I love reading your blog posts each month because they help they make me realize that failing at your goals is okay. And it's not the end of the world. That's definitely an idea worth sharing. Like that night after my session with Matthew, I just sort of, you know, sat on the sofa with like this burst of inspiration. I sort of banged out a blog post about like, why I'm taking blogging more seriously and then banged out another one Like my goals for my March 2021 goals update. Which has actually been like the most read post on our website for the last like week, and people seem to be really liking it. And I was having a chat with some other mutual friends, just catching up with them. And like one of them was like, Oh, yeah, you know, I read your blog post. It was really interesting. I was like, Oh, my God, you actually read my posts? It's such a nice feeling when someone says that they actually, actually read the blog or listen to the podcast or like, watch the videos. But not in the extent that like, it's, I find it even more flattering when it's just casually mentioned that Oh, in that video, like last week, you said to me, like, Oh, my God, you actually watched it?

Taimur

I find that flattering, but also offensive. I think I tweeted about this, and maybe I've brought it up on the podcast. But it's someone I know, in real life, like, listens to the podcast, or read some of my stuff. And then doesn't tell me about it until a lot later on. I find it very intrusive. It's like, why would you listen to me for two hours in your air and not drop me a message to say, Hey, I've listen to your podcast. Why would you do that? What a weird thing to do.

Ali

I make a point to comment on all my youtuber friends his videos when if I've seen seen the entirety of it. Because it was always a bit sneakey.

Taimur

Yeah, it's sneaky. It seems always deceitful. I have a right to privacy. Yeah, yeah, I read your blog. I read your blog posts.

Ali

Well, thanks for letting me know. It's only five days later.

Taimur

I sort of skimmed it. And I thought it was quite interesting that it seemed like for at least half of the goals. You're just like, yeah, I haven't really been doing this or whatever. I think the ABS one, the wife one. Yeah, there are a few others.

Ali

Yeah, I mean, I just thought I'd make lists of goals, things that I want to get done in the year, I didn't really follow any kind of SMART goal framework for them or anything like that. Because partly, I don't really care about that sort of stuff. But it was just quite nice having sort of writing down this like 2500 word thing. I was like, Oh, yeah, these are my goals and related. And now I've got to kind of codify it on the internet. And so in a way, it makes it easier for me to know what I'm working on. Yeah, like the fact that is written down somewhere public.

Taimur

Interesting. I thought the, I thought the way that you announced the blog post was particularly interesting. And I'd like to talk about that somewhat. Let me bring up the tweet. Can we just talk about your little video clips that you tweet on Twitter? What's the point of them? Did they do anything for you? It just seems to like clutter up your tweets with I don't know.

Ali

I did a Twitter poll. And like 85% of people said they liked them.

Taimur

Okay, fine, fine.

Ali

I'm not a fan of them personally. But when I see other people doing clips like that, I mostly ignore it. But occasionally I'm like, Okay, this is interesting. I'll watch it. And then I think it's interesting that I actually watch this clip, because normally, I would ignore it. And like, if you hadn't put this clip out there, I wouldn't have gotten this piece of this nugget of whatever. Yeah. And I feel like I'm glad you do this, even though like maybe only watch like 1% of the clips that you put up.

Taimur

All right, right. Alright, so I have found the tweet, you said, on the third of March, guys, I went a bit overboard and wrote a 2500 word update about my personal and business goals for 2021 [...], check it out here if you'd like and then a link, I'd like to unpack that a little bit.

Ali

All right, let's go for it.

Taimur

So there were two things that stood out to me about the tweets. Can you guess what they were?

Ali

Overboard and [...]?

Taimur

Correct. All right. Why do you think this stood out for me?

Ali

I think overboard and [...] stuff. Are you because it sounds very apologetic?

Taimur

Yes. Yeah, I think apologetic is a good word for it. Yeah, it's like it's a it's a pattern that I think lots of people do, particularly when sort of publicizing something that they've just done, thus, you know sort of do in a very apologetic tone. So you know, a really common sort of way of doing it is like if you've if you've written something, if you've recently made something or done something, there's this weird phrase that people say which is, so I did a thing. You know, they'll say like, so I did a thing. And then they'll like link to whatever, you know, whatever they've just done. And why did you do it?

Ali

I felt like, I probably felt some level of some level of discomfort at the blatant self promotion, and some level of..

Taimur

Can I stop you there? You literally have a YouTube channel for a living. Do you self promote? Like, even on Twitter with your little clips and stuff. Like, this difference?

Ali

It's different because talking because writing 2500 words about my own personal goals is like a different form of self promotion, then writing 2500 words about how to be more productive.

Taimur

Okay, because it's more like personal and self serving almost. Yeah, it's

Ali

Yeah, it's like almost like a public journal. Okay, public, public private journal. And therefore, I felt like I felt the need to give a nod to the fact that I was self aware about the fact that this is a self promoting type self promoting slash, like type thing therefore the overboard and [...] came into it.

Taimur

Let's see if someone else who you followed I don't know. Tiago Forte for example, if Tiago wrotes at 2500 word updates about his personal and business goals for 2021 and he didn't signal his self awareness about how like self indulgent that is. What would you think? If Tiago just like earnestly posts. Hey guys, here it is. My 2021 goals updates. Let me know what you think. Like would you think oh man what a prick. [...]

Ali

No, I would just be like, Okay, cool. Click.

Taimur

Do you like stand by it? Or do you think that was like? Yeah, do you do stand by what you did? That sounds like you've committed a heinous crime. Which you have to be insincerity.

Ali

I'm not sure insincerity is the word that I would use.

Taimur

Why not?

Ali

Because you can be sincere about something while also recognizing that it's a little bit while also recognizing that it's a little bit self indulgent to write a 2500 word blog post in public about your own personal goals. I think I was sincere, but not serious.

Taimur

I don't think you were sincere, mate.

Ali

Okay. Why do you think I was not sincere?

Taimur

Because you felt the need to coat this in like a layer of not irony, but a layer of sort of humor or something. Because you couldn't be earnest or maybe we should give some definitions here. Earnest means resulting from or showing sincere and intense conviction. Sincere means free from pretense or deceit.

Ali

I feel like there's [...] around it. There was just the strong conviction wasn't there. But I don't like..

Taimur

Okay, okay. I guess you were sincere in the sense that you were genuinely insecure about this thing. And you were signaling the insecurity by saying that overboard, and the [...]. So you were you were like, you're being sincere.

Ali

I'm always sincere in the things I do online.

Taimur

But yeah, I guess like, do you stand by the insecurity, like on the 2022 update, you're going to do the same thing?

Ali

I think now, like if, like, now that I've done it a few times, like now that I've done it once, it will be less of a weird thing to like, for me to do in the future. But like, if not, okay, let's imagine, let's imagine like, pick a random, you know, a stereotypical hypothetical Twitter think boy that you like to rail against?

Taimur

I don't really against anyone to be fair.

Ali

Okay, sure. But let's pretend there is like, you know, a Twitter think boy who is tweeting, like with conviction, fortune cookie tweets, that are not based on any kind of personal experience, but there are purely based on repackaging insights from [...]

Taimur

Yeah, right. (laughs)

Ali

I think I wouldn't want to do that. Like, it's, that's not that's not the impression that I want to give on the internet that I am the sort of person who has so much conviction about the second hand experience that I will just put it out there as a tweet. I would like..

Taimur

Haven't you made videos literally like this is the five takeaways I got from this book or whatever.

Ali

Yeah, but like, like a video saying, Hey, guys, I really enjoyed this book. And here are five takeaways I got is different to consistency is more important than intensity.

Taimur

Okay, fine.

Ali

Like I could tweet consistency is more important than intensity full stop, but it's just a different kind of vibe. And, and that's not me. Unless I feel like I've gained that insight from personally. Yeah, yeah. And equally, yes, I could say, Hey, guys, here's my 2021 modules update, link, but I just think it's more it's more me to be like, Hey, guys, [..] went a bit overboard. Here's my 21 goals update if anyone wants to read it lol haha..

Taimur

Really? That's more you?

Ali

Yeah, that's more authentic to who I am IRL, then guys here and here's my, here's my goals update. Like in a social situation, I wouldn't just be like, right guys, I'm gonna update you about my goals.

Taimur

Twitter isn't a social situation.

Ali

Like, in a way, we're all signaling our personalities online. And I tend to be more apologetic about the way that I portray myself online than other people people might do. I think that's fine.

Taimur

Let me think about that for a second.

Ali

It's something I'm having to get over in terms of this book writing process. And like being unapologetic about being an internet guru, and being like a productivity guru or whatever. Right? Because I think historically, I've been good at repackaging insights from other people. And I feel that I don't have any original ideas at all. And I feel like everything I do is just sort of taken from someone else with my own, like occasional spin apply to it. But speaking to the people who are kind of helping me out on the book front, this is like a suboptimal way of thinking now, because I do have, quote, original insights about the way that I live my life. And it's not entirely based on kind of what other people have said. And it's recognizing that, okay, there is actually a layer of this is what I think and this, and these are my kind of firm beliefs. Whereas it's easy to hide behind. Hey, this is what Cal Newport said.

Taimur

Exactly, yeah.

Ali

So now as I'm working with people to help craft the book proposal and the book and stuff, it's been a constant battle to be more okay with being with having more conviction about things, and actually recognizing that my opinion is valid. I was saying this to my writing coach this week, we were talking about this. And I was thinking, and he was like, why do you feel like your opinion isn't valid? I was like, well, because I'm writing a book about productivity. And like, you know, if Elon Musk were to write a book about productivity, his opinion would be valid. Like, I am not Elon Musk, therefore, my opinion on productivity is not valid.

Taimur

Okay.

Ali

He was like, I think we should unpack that a little bit. And yeah, I think for me, the sort of alleged self awareness and bordering on imposter syndrome bordering on kind of wanting to be wanting to not be seen as like a brash American with like, huge conviction, like tweeting about stuff like, not wanting to be seen in that way. Because that feels, not me. I think I probably take that too far. When it comes to things like the book, I think I do an okay job of it on the YouTube channel, because I'm comfortable enough on in the form of YouTube videos to know that what I say has value. Whereas when it comes to writing a book or writing blog posts, which are two things that I'm less used to.

Taimur

Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, I guess they are different mediums. Yeah, I think partly why I was surprised was like, I was kind of thinking, look, I'd understand this, if it was coming from if this was the first time someone has put themselves out there on the internet. And they're kind of shy about it or insecure about it, or whatever. And so they do, also I did, I did a thing or whatever. Search fine, announced it. But I just thought it was weird coming from you, because you've always been doing this a while. But you're saying that writing a blog post doesn't feel at all like making a YouTube video?

Ali

Yes. Making YouTube video, I made a YouTube video about my goals of 2021. I didn't need to hedge anything on there.

Taimur

Ah, okay.

Ali

Whereas the medium of blog post, I think was worthy. Because it was just a bit different for me. Like I didn't write 2000 word blog posts about myself. It's just not a thing.h That made it feel like more of a hey, you know, this is pushing the boat out rather than it being like a standard part of my life.

Taimur

Did it feel more like reading than making a YouTube video about the same topic?

Ali

It did, in a way. It did, because seeing stuff on paper is like very different to just sort of having like making a video about a topic that isn't like scripted, like my goals on what like wasn't scripted, making video about that just kind of feels like chatting to a friend. It feels like not a big deal in the slightest. Whereas you're down on paper and publishing it on a web site feels more permanent, more legit, more like, okay, I've actually had to think about this, rather than just kind of say, whatever the hell I want. It's like, I have no qualms about saying stuff on this podcast, but if I were to write those things down, I'd have to think harder about them. But yeah, I would need and also just the medium of writing requires ideas to be more well thought out, then the medium of podcasts or the medium of video.

Taimur

I think there's a perception that the medium of writing requires ideas to be like more well thought out. But I mean, certainly, there are plenty of people who do more stream of conscious style, blogging, journaling, whatever, I don't think it has to be that way. But I do think there is something more like if your ear like we're talking on the podcast, or whatever there is, there's an understanding that the word that just like coming out of our mouths, we're not really thinking too much about this. But I think when you decide to write something, unless explicitly you're like, look, this is a stream of consciousness thing. Like I don't edit this, blah, blah, blah. And I know some people do that. And it's pretty, it's pretty interesting. Unless you're actually doing that, then you are deliberately choosing all the words that you've said and there is something revealing about every choice that you've made for every one of those words in that piece, you know? Your soul is in there, basically.

Ali

Like it's very easy for me to say in a YouTube video. Hey, guys, I'm trying to find a wife this year, lol and I'm gonna call it my wife quest, but putting that down on paper. This year I have decided to embark on the wife quest.

Taimur

Yeah, this dude sat down and wrote the words wife quest. Yeah, it's different. It's different for sure. Okay, that is interesting.

Ali

Speaking of, have you come across a book called—The Rosie Project.

Taimur

No, what is it?

Ali

Ah, it's really good. I was listening to it this week/last week and stayed up until like four in the morning just finishing it one night. It's probably one of Bill Gates' favorite book. It's the story of this genetic professor who has some variant of Asperger's syndrome. And how he's trying to find a wife. And he has this thing called The Wife Project where he like, you know, sets up a questionnaire and does it. It's like remarkably relatable. I think I think you would enjoy it.

Taimur

Okay, okay.

Ali

Yeah, really good.

Taimur

The Rosie Project, audio book?

Ali

I mean, it's a book, but I listened to the audiobook.

Taimur

Nice. Yeah, that sounds great. I have two Audible credits sitting around. So hold on. I'll use that next. Okay, so staying on this topic of like, earnestness or sincerity in posting/ Yeah, I think like, just going to scroll through my own tweets. I think I like to think that I'm sort of authentic and sincere, but I do I feel forces in directions. Or like, I'm very wary of being a think boy on Twitter. And I think I like I steer too clear of that, because I just don't want don't like the idea of being thought of as a think boy.

Ali

I think this is why you don't capitalize your tweets.

Taimur

I don't know about that. Okay, no, so I capitalized some of my tweets. So it depends what I'm tweeting if, look, a lot of some of what I tweet is like, sort of genuine. Yeah, look like some some of the stuff I tweet is like jokes and shit posts and things and not capitalizing those, you know, it's a medium. It's part of the medium for like, the more straight up stuff I tweets. For example, a week ago, I tweeted about, like, what do people mean when they say that they can feel the effects of coffee? Like that's not that's not like a joke. It's not a shitpost. It's literally just me asking a question and interested to hear what people think.

Ali

Like asking a question is a different type of tweet than tweeting a statement.

Taimur

Let me find your statement.

Ali

How do you find the balance between X and Y? Is an interview question that sounds sophisticated, but rarely reveals useful answers.

Taimur

Yeah, that was a statement. I tweeted it with conviction. Yeah. So I think I think I broadly and fairly authentic, but I do feel I do feel forces over like, anti think pointers. For one. And I tried to think what would I be what would I be apologetic about? I think like, I think when publicizing Causal stuff on my personal Twitter account, I sometimes feel this thing of like, Oh, I need to like yeah, basically what you were saying about needing to signal self awareness that you're like shilling or whatever or self promoting. And I feel a bit of that but then I know I know I'm feeling that and I know it's stupid and then I just kind of ignore it and saw it like I got it a week or two ago you know, we're hiring a bunch of people at Causal I posted about it from my Twitter from my personal Twitter. I just pretty straight up but I felt that I felt the force of like or maybe I shouldn't maybe I should throw a joke in there. I did feel it.

Ali

I wonder if the throw the joke in there is the same. I wonder if it's the same mental process that runs for people who write #blessed, #sograteful kind of thing. As a way of tempering the inherent self promoting nature of a certain thing.

Taimur

Wait, do people use hashtag blessed and hashtag grateful non ironically?

Ali

People on LinkedIn do yeah.

Taimur

Okay. Okay. All right. I don't know what these posts look like. Also, I have to complain after the after the sincere and earnest post about Causal hiring. I then reply I then added a tweet to this thread saying I forgot to add one like equals what respect? Look, but no, just to defend myself here a little bit by all means. I genuinely thought [...] I genuinely I thought of it afterwards. And I genuinely thought it was funny. Like, I don't, I don't think I was doing that in order to like, signal self awareness or whatever. I just thought it was funny. Like, just as the phrase one like equals all respect came to mind that oh, that's pretty funny.

Ali

I promise, Your Honor. I didn't think of it at the time.

Taimur

It wasn't premeditated. What were you saying about #grateful, #blessed on LinkedIn posts?

Ali

I think like, for example, isn't the same. So like, for example, if I were to tweet just got accepted into Harvard Business School, it's a different sort of tweet then just got accepted into Harvard Business School lol OMG I can't believe it, which is a different sort of tweet to just got accepted into Harvard Business School so grateful for everyone to help me on that I love the way hashtag blessed the latter is more self aware, or more. [...] the latter are more comfortable to tweet then just got accepted into Harvard Business School, which feels like pure unadulterated brag. I think the brag needs to be adulterated by something needs to be tempered by some level of lol can't believe it. Like oh my gosh, so grateful or ah, you know, whatever.

Taimur

I don't know. I mean, it's I think, like, I don't think it necessarily needs to be a brag, you know, like part of social media is showing what's going on with your life with other people who extensively claim to care what what's going on in your life because they follow you on social media. And so if there's a meaningful life update, like just got accepted into Harvard Business School. Yeah, maybe you're bragging by saying that, but maybe you're not maybe you're just sharing maybe sort of..

Ali

Most people would feel more uncomfortable about tweeting that then by following it up with a lol OMG I can't believe it. I'll be like, lol, I do 't know how this happened. Or being like, embarrassed emoji, or, you know.

Taimur

Okay, let's talk about the soul rather blessed, the #blessed angle of like so grateful.

Ali

I think it just feels uncomfortable to some people. I feel like it feels uncomfortable to most people just make a genuinely clear statement, specially if that statement could signal things that you'd rather not signal like, self absorption and narcissism or bragging.

Taimur

Okay, yeah, look, I agree, I get it, I obviously get it. In this case, like, I would be a little bit weird just to say, just to say, I just got accepted into Harvard Business School. Because, like, if you think about, if you think about how, you know, what you what you'd kind of be sharing with people there, you'd want to, you want to share, like how you feel about that. Like, if you think about how you'd tell your friends that, like you'd share, like the feelings you have about the thing rather than just like, you know, delivering some information, right? And so like, I don't think like, you know, a bunch of exclamation marks are like omg calm believe it. I don't think that is necessarily like trying to signal the self awareness. I think that can just be like a really earnest, you know, I'm just super psyched that I got into Harvard Business School.

Ali

Yeah, I mean, in that same sense, me tweeting, guys, I went a bit overboard and wrote 2500 words about my goals, lol, that is signaling how I feel about the thing. I didn't feel like I went overboard below down this blog post is longer than I thought it would be, I thought would be like 300 words. And the lol bit it's just sort of is signaling my genuine sort of slightly cringe response at doing the thing.

Taimur

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, look, I think, okay, so I think there's this there's different things that it's worth separating here. I think what the thing you did was relatively sincere in that you did feel insecure about this thing. And you were like, I get it. You don't like the word insecurity? What would you rather I say? Shy?

Ali

Insecure, fine.

Taimur

Okay, like you felt a little bit insecure.. [...] You felt a little bit insecure about the thing, the blog posts, for reasons. And you were sort of signaling the insecurity by the overboard and the lol in the tweet. And in that sense, that was fine. And so the thing I was trying to get at was like, why are you feeling insecure? And do you stand by that? And like, you know, the discussing of feelings around that.

Ali

And I'd love to stand by my insecurity. (laughs) Wear my security on my sleeve. Yeah. There was a feeling of insecurity and that feeling of insecurity was signaled by the use of the word lol and overboard, in the tweet.

Taimur

So that's one thing, I think, I think that's, you know, that's fine. You know, call a spade a spade, good on you for doing it. I think another phenomenon is more around the forces that I mentioned around, like, we're not wanting to be a think boy, whatever. And I think, like, if you if you look at how some people tweets, there's definitely like a certain manner to it. In terms of like, in terms of the tone and things like that.

Ali

Let's find some examples for the audience who might not be as familiar with certain bits of Twitter like that you and I are.

Taimur

think there is a term, there's a term that like, basically describes what I'm trying to get out, which is called Posters Brain. Have you heard this?

Ali

No. What is that?

Taimur

Are you familiar with the term posting or poster or like post? Post as a..

Ali

As distinct from page? Or?

Taimur

No post doesn't like the verb like to post online.

Ali

Yeah, that was what you were talking about.

Taimur

Yeah. But like, a poster is like, like, let me alright, I'm gonna have I'm going to try to find the urban dictionary. So for example, okay, let me find your Liz Bruenig tweet. Do you remember who Liz Bruenig is? She's the best person on Twitter. The only thing is that she has tweets set to auto to the off, like three days or something. Okay, basically, I think if you spend enough time in whatever subculture is online, you it'll, it starts to rewire your brain a little bit in terms of what you think about how you think about that thing, and how you interpret that thing and how you communicate that thing. And so, if you, for example, like there are a bunch of people on tech, Twitter, for example. Who posts like really sort of, sort of like, kind of like snarky, ironic takes about like tech stuff or whatever. And like that will have like a very certain tone and a very specific brands that's coming across. And I think in real life, these people are probably not actually, you know, they're not like that. And that's fine. But my point is that, like there are these forces that sort of influence how you choose to come across online. And, and yeah, I often feel if I'm like, if I'm doing something, I feel like I need to coax it into some kind of joke or some sort of irony or something like that. Just because why does it feel weird just to like, be sincere about it?

Ali

It feels weird if you're, if it's not currently part of your brand, in a way, like, and I think that just comes from practice, like, for example, if Navall or James Clear tweet something, they wouldn't, you wouldn't expect, but like lol in it, because they're just very seem seemingly comfortable with just giving advice. And people resonate with their advice in that format. And given that their Twitter accounts are entirely full of that just giving advice it if it's part, it's just part of the authenticity and the overall brand, brand image. Whereas if you were to tweet consistency beats intensity, it would be a little bit odd, it would be not the sort of thing you would normally say. And so you'd have to be like, look, guys, this is not the norm. This is not the sort of thing I normally say. But trust me, the intensity. [...] James Clear with which this is not the sort of thing I normally say. [...] sensitive people be like, bro, if I were to make a video about how I'm getting in touch with my inner feelings to find my values, I would have to preface it with that look guys I know this is gonna sound weird. And I know I don't normally talk about this stuff but dot dot dot. Whereas if at spiritual mind value would make a video about the same thing, it would be that there would be no need for prefacing.

Taimur

I see. Why would you feel the need to preface that? I mean, it's true that it's not normally the thing, normally what kind of thing you're talking about, but why? Why do you need to draw attention to that? Does it feel like you're sort of getting outside your lane or something or?

Ali

Yeah, to think that I'm going into my lane. And for the people that are like me, i.e. my audience is a case of like, okay, guys, look, this is not the stuff we normally think about but but but trust me on this, bear with me, watch this video, watch through to the end, smash that like button and you'll learn something at the end of it.

Taimur

Smash that like button (laughs). Was that a joke? This is just how you talk now.

Ali

Make sure you like, comment, subscribe.

Taimur

[...] has already funny bits where this is true his podcast. He talks about how like sometimes when he's just hanging out socially at like a dinner or something. You know, he'll sometimes have to sort of, you know, take lead of the conversation if no one else is taking lead. And you know, he'll like entertain people, he'll tell some jokes. And just by sort of instinct, if he tells a joke that gets a big laughs he'll follow it up with let's take a break don't go away. Because that's like, on his show, what he do is off you make a big joke. That's what you cut to the outbreak and you'd say like, we'll be back. Don't go away. (laughs)

Ali

Yeah, I have a similar tick in real life where it's like, if I say something, and then I kind of stump and then I stumble on my words. Do a little clap.

Taimur

Wait, do you actually?

Ali

And then do the thingy?

Taimur

Do you actually do that in real life at all? Or like as a joke or whatever?

Ali

Occasionally I do it as a joke. I think there was one time where I did it. Just like accidentally. I was like.. Mortified. I can't remember. This was like a probably about a year ago. I feel like it was because I was talking to another YouTuber. And I feel like it was it was on a topic that I usually talk about in videos. And so just like you know, this little clip. And then you've got to leave a little pause so that the editor can then like, [...]

Taimur

[...] Do you see sort of interjecting with. Angus, let's cut the last 10 seconds out. Like in the middle of a conversation.

Ali

I think we have an emoji coming up over there. And then a lower third..

Taimur

Nice. I think we talked about like sincerity on social media. Yeah, I just I think like, you have to be sincere. I think like a lot of people on Twitter certainly are playing some kind of character. Like a lot of the really funny people are definitely like playing some kind of character and they won't be like that in real life. And that's fine. Like, it's fine to do that. But I think there's just like a general fear of being earnest and sincere man. It's just it's hard. It's hard for us to do. And it shouldn't be that way. Right? Why do you think it's hard?

Ali

I feel like it's..

Taimur

Is it just like, is it similar to that vulnerability?

Ali

The fear of putting ourselves out there, episode two or four or whatever it was. This pod where it takes the level of yeah vulnerability, confidence and a level of, I don't care what people think or level of I'm open to being criticized for this. I think the fear of being sincere and earnest, is sort of sort of like hedging. Where if you've shown that lol I wasn't saying this, but I wasn't really, you know, I wasn't really trying lol, you are less likely to be lambasted by the commenters for having the audacity to try the crabs in the barrel are less likely to drag you down if you don't look as if you're making a sincere effort to jump out of the barrel, right? If you just sort of look up and kind of scratch occasionally, and then maybe occasionally kind of been, you know, got the barrel, look around a bit and come back. You're not really you're not really rocking the boat.

Taimur

I see. Yeah.

Ali

But I feel like this is why starting a YouTube channel is quite hard. In a way more so than starting a podcast or writing a blog is hard. Because you're putting more of yourself out there.

Taimur

Of the YouTube channel because of like your face and stuff?

Ali

Yeah, because like your face and stuff. And so many people are like, Oh, I don't I have a discomfort with showing my face online. Discomfort with even revealing my true name online. And I want to do YouTube, but I don't want to show my face. It's like a very normal thing. That's like a huge insecurity of a lot of people. It's also a big part of, I hear it a lot from I mean, I hear it a lot from like, girls with Muslim sounding names. And you can kind of see why that would be the case.

Taimur

What do you mean?

Ali

And then like, I, most of the messages I've gotten on Instagram from people saying, Hey, I wanted an email. I want advice for starting a YouTube channel. But I don't want to show my face has been the name of a has been a Muslim girl name. Which kind of makes sense, given the background of like conservatism and the background of like, Well, you know, the all of the various baggage is associated with that.

Taimur

Yeah, I guess so. Do you dig into like, why? [...] Okay, right.

Ali

My thing on the name front is usually I don't, I don't usually dig in. Like, if I were doing a one on one consultation with someone I would dig into it. I was speaking to one of my friends from uni, is a Muslim girl, and said that I don't want my face to be on a YouTube channel, and yet was okay with her face being on other people's YouTube channels. So I was like really trying to dig into this being like, okay, what's, yeah, what's going on here? To the point that she that she got, like, upset was like, I don't wanna talk about this anymore. Just like, drop it off. Oh, wow. Okay.

Taimur

I think like, I think there is judgment, you know, like, people would judge these things in a certain way. Like, I can imagine if you're like, a Muslim girl from a conservative background, you know, people might sort of judge you, if you, you know, have you have a YouTube channel where you put your face out there? And people might be like, well, what is she doing? You know, what, what is this? Like? It's not the proper thing or something like that. But like, I think like, there is definitely a lot of judgment. It's not like, it's not like people are crazy. And it's just all in their head that like, this is scary, or whatever. I think there are action there. There is actually judgment and consequences that can come from these things. In many instances.

Ali

Yeah, I feel like a part of it as well is like in the last 12 months. I know like lots and lots of people who have started YouTube channels or started like Instagram IGTV accounts where they like talking about themselves, and you know, this sort of stuff. And I have been in conversations where people that I know have been hating on those to a degree that like, Oh my god, did you see John/Jane, usually it's Jane, did you see that? Jane has started a YouTube channel. Oh, my God. Like, what? What? What? What's going on there? You know, or did you see that thing that Jane posted on Instagram? Lol sounded so cringe.

Taimur

Yeah, people do say this stuff.

Ali

Yeah. And I, there is a big element like it's, I think, I think it's, it's, it's easy to over index on the thing of, you know, don't worry about what other people think of you because they just don't spend any time thinking of you. But if we're the sort of person who knows people slash are the sort of person who would look at our friend Jane starting instagramming and answering questions about x and thinking then it's going to be a lot harder for us to do the same thing and put ourselves out there in any capacity, because we know that there is a human tendency to judge. Whereas if you were and I would argue this is the the correct way to live. If you see your friend posting something on Instagram and your response is, well done, mate, as opposed to what's going on that that's a much more conducive way of actually being up being more okay with taking risks and putting yourself out there yourself.

Taimur

Yeah. Yeah, I think the crabs in the barrel analogy is just really good. I think we talked about this on episode two, as well, where it feels weird to watch somebody, you know, sort of change in some way. And, yeah, people didn't like it, man.

Ali

Yeah. Yeah, I think the response to it is very, it's almost like the analogy that comes to mind is like, the phenomenon of slut shaming. And the equivalent for guys, which is the Oh, he must be gay.

Taimur

[...]

Ali

I mean, it's not entirely equivalent, but there was there was this great thing i was i was reading about like that was comparing and contrasting these two phenomena. And they're both based around feeling threatened by this other person feeling threatened by they're generally higher than yours prowess in the sexual marketplace, and therefore trying to invalidate that by either saying they're a slot or by saying they're gay.

Taimur

Oh, I see.

Ali

I feel they talk about this in "The Elephant in the Brain" or in one of these books that we've discussed recently, about how this is like a psychological defense mechanism against like, Oh, you know, she has dressed up nicely and looks good, therefore, she's a slut or he has dressed up nice, standard good and looks good as attractive and charismatic, therefore, he's gay. You know, we're not competing in that market anymore. I'm gonna, I'm gonna remove them from that from the competition in my in my own head. I think it's kind of it's somewhat analogous when it's like, oh, she has started a YouTube channel slash Instagram page. Oh, that's so cringe. Like, probably there is an element of, I kind of wish I could do the same. And an element of like, I don't want to have to think about the fact that I kind of wish I could do the same therefore, I'm going to tear this person down. Even though they are the proverbial man in the arena.

Taimur

Yeah. Yeah, that's very interesting. Actually. I think that Yeah, that's a good analogy. I wonder, like, with the current sort of generation of teens, and so on, where, you know, everyone wants to be a YouTuber, or whatever. It's like, you know, it's like, everyone like watches this stuff. Everyone is like, into this stuff. I wonder if there's the same amount of baggage attached to it? Like, is it? Is it weird and cringe, if like your mates, you know, if you're, like, 12 years old, and your mate is starting to, you know, [...] and Fortnite or something, or dancing together? Is that is that like weird and cringe? Or is that? Is it sort of normalized? It's, I don't know. It's like, it's like, if you're a university and someone applies for an internship, like. [...]

Ali

If you're in secondary school, and someone applies for an internship.

Taimur

Yeah, that's maybe cringe. Like, yeah, if, if if it's sort of young teen is getting into Tiktok or whatever, like, do that. What are the other would their peer groups that have dragged them down? Or is it just like, so normal and so valued? That it's like, yeah, you know, they're doing the thing, good for them.

Ali

I remember I was I was listening to a Charli D'Amelio interview once where this question was asked, and she was like, yeah, I started dancing on Tiktok. And I was really scared. I didn't want to tell anyone, but I started doing it. And so even then, which would have been like two years, two years ago, probably, yeah, there was an element of this is cringe.

Taimur

Now, but look a lot. I mean, a lot has changed in two years. We now know who Charli D'Amelio is. Yeah, I think a lot has change to those two years, especially with Tiktok. Yeah, I wonder if that would be considered cringe. If you are a teenager and you have any thoughts about we're talking about? What would be curious, like if your friends started YouTube, or Tiktok or Twitch? Would would that be cringe until they reach some level of scale? Or would that be like fairly normal and esteemed thing to do?

Ali

I generally think we should we should get a kid on the podcast, who understand social dynamics, this sort of social media dynamic. Yeah, just like unpack this a little bit more. cuz I'd love to hear from like a 13 year old about like, what is the you know, what's life on the ground like?

Taimur

Yeah, How's the weather down there? (laughs).

Ali

How do the real people live these days?

Taimur

Yeah, I feel like we should we should just have like an annual updates from like, kids. I mean, I think things are changing so quickly, probably needs to be like a quarterly update.

Ali

Every quarter, we have a 13 year old come on the podcast. One thing that I, on a somewhat related note, I got an email a few weeks ago from a YouTuber with like, I don't know 400k subs or something like that, who wanted to have a chat just because she was like, Hey, you know, I make videos and I'm kind of in the similar productivity type thing. I'd love to have a chat with you and just, you know, share some ideas. I was like, cool. Hop in a Zoom call with her and that she's 14. And it was like a very, very, like, standard, you know, good vibes youtuber talking to youtuber conversation. But when my when like, some of my team members saw this, and when she saw this, I was talking to a 14 year old youtuber over Zoom. There was like a real response of Oh my god, you can't possibly do that. How, you know, how can you speak to someone under 18 over Zoom? And I was completely baffled by this. I was like, What the hell? Like?

Taimur

Yeah.

Ali

This is a YouTuber who has reached out where we're sharing advice about YouTube. He was like, Yeah, but you know, anything could happen over a Zoom call, like what the hell is gonna happen over a Zoom call like, right? I was very surprised by the very strong negative reaction that like Sheen and one of my other team members, who was also girl had to this.

Taimur

Did you dig into it? Like what? What were their thoughts? I think it would have been different if you're if you're proactively reaching out to 14 year olds to have Zoom calls. But that's not what's going on. Right? Like they reached out to you. You agree to a Zoom call?

Ali

Yeah. I mean, I think it was it was hard to get out. Like what the actual problem with this was other than No, Ali, this is wrong. Think about your image, you know, she could say anything about you, she could say that something inappropriate happened over the Zoom call. Or words to that effect. And therefore, you do not want to, therefore, you want to have a chaperone. When you were what if you're if you're on a zoom call with anyone under the age of 18. It just seemed like an I don't know. Is it? Is it reasonable? Is it a bit weird? It's it seems absurd to me to have that restriction. But I don't know.

Taimur

Yeah. I mean, so it was more from the angle of like, you should protect yourself in the situation from like..

Ali

From false allegations? Yeah, that was that was the angle.

Taimur

Okay. Maybe you should protect I have no idea. Yeah. It's a wild world out there.

Ali

Exactly. The automatic Zoom call recording feature. And also being like, okay, like, this might be weird, but I'm recording the Zoom call. trust me, this is what my team say I should do. Just in case. I don't know.

Taimur

That is interesting. Yeah. I had a chat with a link of 14 year old boy a couple of months ago, listened to the podcast and stuff and wanted to talk about things. I didn't feel. I didn't have anyone around me saying that. That was a weird thing to do with it. I shouldn't be doing that.

Ali

With a 14 year old girl. Do you think that would have been a different response?

Taimur

Possibly. Yeah. Yeah, it's tricky. Yeah. I mean, I do sometimes worry about this a little bit. I mean, I'm surprised that your openness to like, going on, like a date with someone who slides into your DMs, who's like a complete random. Because, I mean, especially if

Ali

Over 18.

Taimur

Yeah, sure, especially like your, your scale. I don't know, it just seems very easy to get caught up in to get caught up in a dodgy situation. I mean, I've had a few situations like that where, you know, someone who enjoys my work online, you know, slides into the DMs wants to get to know each other better go on a date, or whatever. And there is definitely level of hesitation there. Because there's absolutely no social proof around. Like who this person is, you know, what their intentions might be, and so on. I think like, if you meet someone in real life, it's typically through some kind of, you know, social social connection, whether that's like, through mutual friends at a party through work, whatever, there's, there's always some social fabric of work. Yeah, there's proof of work. There's like some social fabric weigh, you know, that there is going to be a cost. If like, someone does something stupid here that there's gonna be a social cost to it. But when it's like a complete random, and you have no, there's no social fabric connecting you, and you have like, no sense of there sort of anything about them, then there isn't really a costs for someone to do something stupid, whatever that whatever that might entail. And so if I definitely have a lot of hesitation around that, and I'm surprised at how little hesitation Do you seem to have around that?

Ali

What do you mean, like, is it not somewhat equivalent to let's say, meeting someone while you're on holiday, somewhere where you're both in like a hostel together? There's no real social fabric connecting you other than the fact that you happen to have stumbled, like, stumbled into the same hostel.

Taimur

Yeah, I guess I guess that's different, because it's more like, it was sort of symmetric.

Ali

Yeah. And serendipitous. Where in the other scenario.

Taimur

Yeah. And like, I mean, the kind of thing, sorry, go on.

Ali

There's a good story I came across, which is that it was someone talking about like fame and people actively reaching out to you and how how, you know, whether someone is a scammer, and the thought experiment, or the story was that look, if you were to walk into any Starbucks, and you were to give your car keys to someone and say, hey, I need to go to the toilet. Can you look after my car keys?Tthey would it, like, because people are nice. But if someone were to come up to you, and say, Hey, I'm going to look at your keys. At that point, you've so much you've so you're so nailed down into this sort of you're not that population average of people that people no longer applies in that situation. And so I sometimes think about that in the sense of, if someone's actively outreaching, to me or you and saying, hey, I want to go on a date, the chances that they are weird, are increased relative to the population average. Whereas if I were to say to a random person on the street, hey, would you like to go on a date? Chances are, they're a normal person.

Taimur

Yeah. And it's tricky because I don't want to discourage people. Reaching out to other people on the internet. I think it's a great thing I think like more people should do it. Keep sliding on my DMs, ladies. No, but like, it's, I think it's something that people feel weird about naturally. Like, you know, in a lot of the DMs I get, particularly from, say, like a girl who wants to meet up, it usually starts off with look, I know, this is really weird. I hope this isn't creepy. Like, there's like so much caveating around that. And I think that's unnecessary. I think there shouldn't be, and people shouldn't feel weird about it. But I think like, from the receiving point of view, there is definitely like, a higher likelihood of..

Ali

And so someone says, I know, this is weird, it just..

Taimur

I guess. Yeah, I guess maybe that helps.

Ali

This, like a standard thing and like the pickup artist literature, in that if you're approaching a girl on the street, and saying, hey, I think you're cute. Did you want to go on a date? That is weird, like that is not socially normal. And therefore you have to signal me like, like this a totally random. You have to acknowledge the weirdness of the situation to show that you have some level of like, social skills, and you're not just a complete, you know.

Taimur

Yeah.

Ali

Disregarding the the fabric of society.

Taimur

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in your yeah, I mean, in your case, I just be like, concerned that, you know, let's say, like, you know, you know, someone slides into your DMs, you go on a few dates, or whatever. And things don't end up working out for whatever reason, you know, things go south, you know, even among, like, you know, reasonable and compassionate people, there's plenty of instances where, you know, when a relationship ends, there is some level of animosity from one side towards the other. Sometimes, I'm sure it's warranted. In some cases, I'm sure it's not warranted in some cases. And I would be worried about the idea of like, if I were a public figure, like you, if I had, like, you know, gotten a bunch of dates with someone, if things didn't work out, I will be worried that if there is some level of animosity between us, they now have, I don't know, like, text messages and things sent from Ali Abdaal, the YouTube guy. And, you know, this, it's, it's a scary thing, because like, they can do what they could post it on Twitter, they could do all sorts of things. Right. I would be really concerned about that.

Ali

On the text messaging thing. It does cross my mind. Yeah. As I try and keep my text messaging game to a minimum.

Taimur

For safety.

Ali

Yeah, exactly. You know, I'm gonna avoid making any particularly risky jokes over a text message. I think I am conscious about the kind of screenshot culture.

Taimur

Oh, man, I saw the funniest, funniest Instagram thing. It was, just give me a sec. It's a picture of a guy kind of tapping on his forehead, like, you know, telling you to sort of be smart. And the caption is, before you enter her DM to think about how it would look as a screenshot. (laughs) So good.

Ali

Nice.

Taimur

So true.

Ali

Yeah. Like, that's the only extent to which I think about this.

Taimur

Yeah. Okay.

Ali

I feel like overall, this is something that Tim Ferriss talked about, he wrote, like, a very interesting blog post a few months ago called, 11 Reasons Not to Become Famous, and about how all of them, like tons and tons of issues that he's had. In terms of, like, in, in the dating world where, like, you know, a journalist will pose as like someone wanting to date him to try and get like dirt on him and write an article about it that hey, went on date with Tim Ferriss. what it was, like, you know, like that level of stuff. He said that for a long time. It just like sort of made him..

Taimur

I'd be terrified.

Ali

Yeah, opening up to anyone or anything, just because like, what if it's, you know..

Taimur

Yeah, exactly.

Ali

There was even a thing with him where he was saying that he travels under an alias. And he books his flights under like a fake name and hotels under a fake name and stuff like that. And one time he landed in some country, where there was a taxi driver with Timothy Ferriss written on it, and he immediately knew that that could that was definitely a kidnapping because he never he didn't use the real name for the actual taxi. And so as soon as he saw that, he just, like, went straight back into the thing he like, and like called security and blah, blah, blah. It's all like, feels kind of scary. But I don't know.

Taimur

Yeah, he mentioned on his recent episode with Kevin Rose, who's like a old time friend of his where Kevin was actually interviewed Tim in his podcast. He said that like, when at what 80% of the people who you meet, have already Google your name. It's just I think, I think the phrase he used was fucking weird. When like, you know, you know that 80% of people you you meet in real life, like know who you are and will have googled your name. It's just like a very strange place to be.

Ali

That is interesting. Like I went on. Like, sometime last year, I went on a few dates with someone from Hinge. And it's like, hard to know to what extent they've googled my name. To the point where I was, you know, it was up here. I think the question was something like so what's your plan for the rest of the day? I was like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go home and filming a video about about the thing about some topic. She was like, Oh, yeah, I saw that you did that. But it also feels weird to bring it up in a sense of, yeah, so I don't know if you've seen but like, I'm making YouTube videos, and..

Taimur

I'm a big deal. And how much of that are you aware of?

Ali

Exactly. That kind of vibe and sort of just just trying to try to put a feeler out there. Yeah. Because like the internet thing is such a big part of my life that it's always hard to talk about stuff without bringing it in. Yeah. But like being too coy about it just sort of being too casually mentioning it, or I was feel like am I do they think that I'm assuming that they will have seen that they would have [...] slash would I? Like if I knew for a fact they didn't, they hadn't what I would have given more context about this. But if I do not give the context about this, it signals that hey, you know, I take myself too seriously, you know? It's a little bit odd, but it's kind of funny.

Taimur

Price of fame, mate. The Price of fame. I just got a Calendly notification for call in 10 minutes. I think we should wrap this up. Read out a review.

Ali

I'm going to make my own NFT next week.

Taimur

Really?

Ali

Yeah.

Taimur

Well, I don't actually understand that stuff. What is it?

Ali

I'm going to understand it and then NFT about and then make a video about it. Yeah, I don't know if you know, but I make videos on YouTube.

Taimur

Alright, this is a nice review about you. It's entitled Ali Abdaal is my guy. five star reviews. literally the best podcaster the goat did I read this out last time? I feel like we I've heard this one before. Alright, next one's about me then fine. The title is Taimur, the body is funny. five star review. Thank you to not alone anymore.

Ali

Right. That is Taimur or the body is funny?

Taimur

No, the title of the review was Taimur the body. The content was is funny. Like to waste money [...]

Ali

Speaking of originally got one of these bad boys.

Taimur

What is that? An hourglass?

Ali

Yeah.

Taimur

What's funny about why is that relevant?

Ali

And isn't this something you often complain about that you have an hourglass figure?

Taimur

Oh, oh, okay. Just announced that to the worldwide. Yeah, I I used to be insecure about by hourglass figure. I'm okay with it now.

Ali

Nice.

Taimur

All right. Cool. So, thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.

Ali

Goodbye. That's it for this week. Thank you for listening.

Taimur

If you liked this episode, please leave us a review on Apple podcasts on the Apple podcast website. If you're not using an iPhone, there's a link in the show notes.

Ali

If you've got any thoughts on this episode, or any ideas for new podcast topics. We'd love to get an audio message from you with your conundrum question or just anything that we could discuss.

Taimur

Yeah, if you're up for having your voice played on the podcast

Ali

If you've got thoughts, but you'd rather not have your voice played and your question being the springboard for our discussion, email us an audio publicly, that's fine as well tweet or DM us at @noverthinking on Twitter please.